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Why did Walt kill Lydia?

  • I know Lydia kill put hits on other people, but what reason did Walt have to kill her specifically? Walt didn't know there was a hit put on him until after he picked up Todd's phone after Todd was dead. ??

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    • I think it was a little gratuitous, but considering how liberal Lydia had been with wanting to get rid of anyone who knew about her crimes - particularly the incident involving Skyler - there was no guarantee that surviving Lydia would have spared Walt's family.

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    • Because Lydia had been seen by Skylar and Walt knew his family was never going to be safe until everyone who had any tie to them was history

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    • Thanks! and a friend filled me in. Lydia sent Todd and thugs to threaten Skyler. He needed to eliminate all threats against anyone harming his family after he died.

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    • Skyler might have told walt about that break-in in granite state (off screen of course)

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    • Madrigal-Ehrmantraut wrote:
      Skyler might have told walt about that break-in in granite state (off screen of course)

      skyler told him in Felina. It was after he poisoned Lydia but I guess he knew that Lydia was still active in the game because of blue sky being around. Seeing her meeting with Todd just confirmed that. 

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    • Besides protecting Skyler and the kids, I think Walt had a much larger goal.

      Her death ended the business end of the meth operation, since Lydia was the last confirmed Madrigal employee "in the know." This involves Jesse, as well.

      If Walt had intended to spare Jesse's life from the start, then Lydia's death was meant to prevent future meth production. With her resources, Lydia might have been able to track Jesse down and get him to cook again. Maybe.

      Walt was also protecting Jesse and the Blue Sky formula by killing Lydia.

      Those are his other two "children," after all.

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    • Lisa23 wrote:
      Madrigal-Ehrmantraut wrote:
      Skyler might have told walt about that break-in in granite state (off screen of course)
      skyler told him in Felina. It was after he poisoned Lydia but I guess he knew that Lydia was still active in the game because of blue sky being around. Seeing her meeting with Todd just confirmed that. 

      But Walt met Skyler after he poisoned Lydia. At least he picked up the ricin before visiting Skyler (Marie calls Skyler while Walk is there and tells her about Walt's meeting with Carol), so he had already decided to poison Lydia at this stage.

      I think Walt's reasons for killing Lydia are much weaker: he's guessing Skyler won't be safe while Lydia is alive (because Skyler can recognize Lydia as "Walt's business associate"), and he's probably bitter that Lydia is still distributing blue meth...

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    • ChomskyDisciple wrote:

      If Walt had intended to spare Jesse's life from the start, then Lydia's death was meant to prevent future meth production. With her resources, Lydia might have been able to track Jesse down and get him to cook again. Maybe.

      Walt was also protecting Jesse and the Blue Sky formula by killing Lydia.

      Those are his other two "children," after all.


      Walt had no intention of leaving Jesse alive, if he had found that Jesse was working with Jack willingly then he would have killed Jesse too, but when they brought him in all broken and chained like some abused dog, he felt bad for what had happen to Jesse and decided to save his life. 


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    • HaroldPWarren wrote:
      Lisa23 wrote:
      Madrigal-Ehrmantraut wrote:
      Skyler might have told walt about that break-in in granite state (off screen of course)
      skyler told him in Felina. It was after he poisoned Lydia but I guess he knew that Lydia was still active in the game because of blue sky being around. Seeing her meeting with Todd just confirmed that. 
      But Walt met Skyler after he poisoned Lydia. At least he picked up the ricin before visiting Skyler (Marie calls Skyler while Walk is there and tells her about Walt's meeting with Carol), so he had already decided to poison Lydia at this stage.

      I think Walt's reasons for killing Lydia are much weaker: he's guessing Skyler won't be safe while Lydia is alive (because Skyler can recognize Lydia as "Walt's business associate"), and he's probably bitter that Lydia is still distributing blue meth...

      True that. Skyler told him after he poisoned Lydia.

      I dont think he did it out of weakness tho, it was part of his unfinished business, that is, to ensure that his family is safe and financially provided for before he dies. Blue meth was his pride, he wouldnt let anyone use his brilliance the way G&E did. 

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    • Cr8meone wrote:
      Walt had no intention of leaving Jesse alive, if he had found that Jesse was working with Jack willingly then he would have killed Jesse too, but when they brought him in all broken and chained like some abused dog, he felt bad for what had happen to Jesse and decided to save his life. 

      Would Walt truly believe that Jesse and Jack were working together as equal partners?

      I would like to think that Walt had some vague idea that Jesse was enslaved. And that everything he did that night was about protecting both his family and (his surrogate son) Jesse.

      After being rejected by Skyler and Walt Jr., Walt regretted much of what he had done (including destroying whatever life Jesse had).

      Walt didn't know that Jesse was still alive until finding out that Blue Sky was still being produced (and not just sold). Only after that did he buy the M60.

      Sure, one could easily say that Walt intended to kill both the Nazis AND Jesse. But Walt is more complex than that.

      I bring you back to my intro question: Would Walt truly believe that Jesse and Jack were working together as equal partners? No. Jack had every intention of killing Jesse; Walt knew this. And Jesse had NO intention of ever willingly cooking again; Walt knew this too.

      Walt's interruption that "Jack owed him" by killing Jesse might have been an intentional attempt to get Jesse in the room, in order to prevent a stray bullet from killing Jesse, who could have been in the path of the bullets but out of Walt's sight.

      Thus, I would argue that Walt intended to save Jesse even BEFORE he saw him all disheveled at the gang's compound. Walt wanted to make whatever amends possible with him, which is why he was willing to let Jesse kill him.

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    • ChomskyDisciple wrote:
      Cr8meone wrote:
      Walt had no intention of leaving Jesse alive, if he had found that Jesse was working with Jack willingly then he would have killed Jesse too, but when they brought him in all broken and chained like some abused dog, he felt bad for what had happen to Jesse and decided to save his life. 

      Would Walt truly believe that Jesse and Jack were working together as equal partners?

      I would like to think that Walt had some vague idea that Jesse was enslaved. And that everything he did that night was about protecting both his family and (his surrogate son) Jesse.

      After being rejected by Skyler and Walt Jr., Walt regretted much of what he had done (including destroying whatever life Jesse had).

      Walt didn't know that Jesse was still alive until finding out that Blue Sky was still being produced (and not just sold). Only after that did he buy the M60.

      Sure, one could easily say that Walt intended to kill both the Nazis AND Jesse. But Walt is more complex than that.

      I bring you back to my intro question: Would Walt truly believe that Jesse and Jack were working together as equal partners? No. Jack had every intention of killing Jesse; Walt knew this. And Jesse had NO intention of ever willingly cooking again; Walt knew this too.

      Walt's interruption that "Jack owed him" by killing Jesse might have been an intentional attempt to get Jesse in the room, in order to prevent a stray bullet from killing Jesse, who could have been in the path of the bullets but out of Walt's sight.

      Thus, I would argue that Walt intended to save Jesse even BEFORE he saw him all disheveled at the gang's compound. Walt wanted to make whatever amends possible with him, which is why he was willing to let Jesse kill him.

      it was verified on Talking bad that walt intended to kill jesse that night, right up until the last split second decision when he finds out he was a prisoner and not a partner.

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    • Why did Walt kill her? Perhaps she farted in his Cherios. I know that would push me over the edge. 

      Seriously though, he wanted her dead since season 5A. If memory serves me correctly, he wanted Mike to do it, but he kept her around becuase Mike wouldn't give up his business partner list and had to spent a lot money to keep them quiet thus the end of Mike. Lydia was a loose end, one that could put a lot of blame back on his family had she ever been apprehended. Also, he knew that due to her Jesse was still alive. 

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    • Madrigal-Ehrmantraut wrote:
      it was verified on Talking bad that walt intended to kill jesse that night, right up until the last split second decision when he finds out he was a prisoner and not a partner.

      I personally don't understand how simply seeing Jesse in that condition would make Walt abruptly change his ironclad murder plot. If he intended to kill Jesse from the get-go, then I doubt the sudden realization of his enslavement would suddenly make Walt have an attack of conscience.

      I want to believe there was something much deeper at work, that Walt regretted his treatment of Jesse beforehand and that he planned on SAVING him from the get-go.

      If Walt were so angry and resentful as to intend on murdering Jesse, then NOTHING would have stopped him. Not even Jesse being a slave. Would an angry and resentful Walt really be swayed by Jesse's enslavement?

      There must have been a prior inclination to save him, which would have stemmed from Walt's legitimate regret at his own treatment of Jesse.

      Otherwise, there's some potential character inconsistency for Walt, which we can attribute to Vince Gilligan himself.

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    • ChomskyDisciple wrote:
      Madrigal-Ehrmantraut wrote:
      it was verified on Talking bad that walt intended to kill jesse that night, right up until the last split second decision when he finds out he was a prisoner and not a partner.
      I personally don't understand how simply seeing Jesse in that condition would make Walt abruptly change his ironclad murder plot. If he intended to kill Jesse from the get-go, then I doubt the sudden realization of his enslavement would suddenly make Walt have an attack of conscience.

      I want to believe there was something much deeper at work, that Walt regretted his treatment of Jesse beforehand and that he planned on SAVING him from the get-go.

      If Walt were so angry and resentful as to intend on murdering Jesse, then NOTHING would have stopped him. Not even Jesse being a slave. Would an angry and resentful Walt really be swayed by Jesse's enslavement?

      There must have been a prior inclination to save him, which would have stemmed from Walt's legitimate regret at his own treatment of Jesse.

      Otherwise, there's some potential character inconsistency for Walt, which we can attribute to Vince Gilligan himself.

      It makes sense if he planned to kill Jesse due to him being partners with the nazis, and once he found out he was a slave, and not a partner, he changed his mind. At first, the only reason he wanted Jesse dead was because he thought he was going to kill him, then, when he told Jack to kill him in the desert, it was because of Jesse being a rat that Hank was out there and got killed. I guess Walt realized that Jesse's torturing for 3 or 4 months was enough punishment, and that it wasn't really Jesse's fault Hank died, and Walt was just overall angry at the time.

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    • ChomskyDisciple wrote:

      Walt's interruption that "Jack owed him" by killing Jesse might have been an intentional attempt to get Jesse in the room, in order to prevent a stray bullet from killing Jesse, who could have been in the path of the bullets but out of Walt's sight.

      Excellent points. I will also that that Walt needed to buy some time to be able grab his key fob to open the trunk and activate the gun turret. Calling for Jesse to be brought in solved that problem by delaying his execution.

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    • Old Joe's Magnet
      Old Joe's Magnet removed this reply because:
      duplicate
      02:08, October 2, 2013
      This reply has been removed

      Jesse was to be killed as well if Jack's partner, so Walt would want to have him standing there when Walt fell to the ground and pressed the button.  It was a last-second decision to save Jesse, brought about by pulling him to the ground with Walt.

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    • Stewfire wrote:
      I know Lydia kill put hits on other people, but what reason did Walt have to kill her specifically? Walt didn't know there was a hit put on him until after he picked up Todd's phone after Todd was dead. ??


      W killed Lydia because she broke bad and allied with Todd the Monster and Jack in keeping Jesse a zombie cook slave.

      Lydia broke bad after the Party.

      Jack had killed Hank in front of Walt's eyes (Walt has lost control, is handcuffed, cannot stop Jack from killing Hank, (or himself for that matter) , and stolen the money.  

      Pink was supposed to be killed by Jack when W found him.

      todd lied and intervened saying he wanted to interrogate Pink, and THEN he would go ahead and kill him which was a lie, because Todd wanted to cook meth, not satisfied with $70,000,000 for some reason, Jack permits it (suspension of disbelief, any sane person would take the $70M and start laundering it.) but regardless, the story line is that Lydia then allies with them, when she hears about 92% Heisenberg Blue and that is why W kills her.  for Breaking Bad, he gave her the ricin.

      She also joins in the threat against Precious Holly, with Todd, and Walter would kill her just on those grounds.

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    • Meth head wrote:
      Stewfire wrote:
      I know Lydia kill put hits on other people, but what reason did Walt have to kill her specifically? Walt didn't know there was a hit put on him until after he picked up Todd's phone after Todd was dead. ??

      W killed Lydia because she broke bad and allied with Todd the Monster and Jack in keeping Jesse a zombie cook slave.

      Lydia broke bad after the Party.

      Jack had killed Hank in front of Walt's eyes (Walt has lost control, is handcuffed, cannot stop Jack from killing Hank, (or himself for that matter) , and stolen the money.  

      Pink was supposed to be killed by Jack when W found him.

      todd lied and intervened saying he wanted to interrogate Pink, and THEN he would go ahead and kill him which was a lie, because Todd wanted to cook meth, not satisfied with $70,000,000 for some reason, Jack permits it (suspension of disbelief, any sane person would take the $70M and start laundering it.) but regardless, the story line is that Lydia then allies with them, when she hears about 92% Heisenberg Blue and that is why W kills her.  for Breaking Bad, he gave her the ricin.

      She also joins in the threat against Precious Holly, with Todd, and Walter would kill her just on those grounds.

      Not to mention Todd's stealth threat to Walt Jr.  When he threatened Skyler and Holly on Lyd's orders, he asked whether or not Flynn would suprise attack him.  Since he killed teens with no remorse anyway you'd know where that was going.

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    • Yes, Walt would certainly protect Junior who is the conduit of benefit to Holly.

      I am sure Walt considers both of his children to be his TRUE PRECIOUS.

      Science and making meth was just a means to an end, the propagation of his DNA, which drives us all.

      We are all slaves to DNA, which begot us, and drives us to do stupid things in order to perpetuate itself.  

      Like such as: getting married to pycho bjtches.

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    • ChomskyDisciple wrote:
      Madrigal-Ehrmantraut wrote:
      it was verified on Talking bad that walt intended to kill jesse that night, right up until the last split second decision when he finds out he was a prisoner and not a partner.
      I personally don't understand how simply seeing Jesse in that condition would make Walt abruptly change his ironclad murder plot. If he intended to kill Jesse from the get-go, then I doubt the sudden realization of his enslavement would suddenly make Walt have an attack of conscience.

      I want to believe there was something much deeper at work, that Walt regretted his treatment of Jesse beforehand and that he planned on SAVING him from the get-go.

      If Walt were so angry and resentful as to intend on murdering Jesse, then NOTHING would have stopped him. Not even Jesse being a slave. Would an angry and resentful Walt really be swayed by Jesse's enslavement?

      There must have been a prior inclination to save him, which would have stemmed from Walt's legitimate regret at his own treatment of Jesse.

      Otherwise, there's some potential character inconsistency for Walt, which we can attribute to Vince Gilligan himself.

      no he actually thought Jesse was partnered with Jack and in cohoots making millions off his work. He found out at the last minute that Jesse was prisoner not partner. I mean it was verified by the creator so theres not much you can do to argue against it

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    • Madrigal-Ehrmantraut wrote:
      ChomskyDisciple wrote:
      Madrigal-Ehrmantraut wrote:
      it was verified on Talking bad that walt intended to kill jesse that night, right up until the last split second decision when he finds out he was a prisoner and not a partner.
      I personally don't understand how simply seeing Jesse in that condition would make Walt abruptly change his ironclad murder plot. If he intended to kill Jesse from the get-go, then I doubt the sudden realization of his enslavement would suddenly make Walt have an attack of conscience.

      I want to believe there was something much deeper at work, that Walt regretted his treatment of Jesse beforehand and that he planned on SAVING him from the get-go.

      If Walt were so angry and resentful as to intend on murdering Jesse, then NOTHING would have stopped him. Not even Jesse being a slave. Would an angry and resentful Walt really be swayed by Jesse's enslavement?

      There must have been a prior inclination to save him, which would have stemmed from Walt's legitimate regret at his own treatment of Jesse.

      Otherwise, there's some potential character inconsistency for Walt, which we can attribute to Vince Gilligan himself.

      no he actually thought Jesse was partnered with Jack and in cohoots making millions off his work. He found out at the last minute that Jesse was prisoner not partner. I mean it was verified by the creator so theres not much you can do to argue against it

      It does not even seem that Walt knew that Jesse was still alive until Badger and Skinny Pete said it must be Jesse who was making the new Blue if Walt was not. By saying it must be Jesse, Walt most likely assumed that he WAS still on the streets meaning he had partnered with Jack, and that Badger and Pete had seen him since the events of Ozymandis (which of course they had not they were just guessing), Most likely before that moment, he was sure that Jack had killed Jesse and thought that Todd had somehow gotten to a higher purity in his cook, either with the help of Lydia or someone else. 

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    • Walt figured out that Jesse must be cooking when he heard on TV Charlie Rose said, there are still signs in the south, and the Czech Republic o the Blue meth trademark being distributed. Walt and Jesse were the only ones that could account for the blue color and the purity of 95% or higher
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    • Madrigal-Ehrmantraut wrote:
      Walt figured out that Jesse must be cooking when he heard on TV Charlie Rose said, there are still signs in the south, and the Czech Republic o the Blue meth trademark being distributed. Walt and Jesse were the only ones that could account for the blue color and the purity of 95% or higher

      That is not exactly true, we know that Gale could achieve a purity of 96% and that he was "Proud of that number" (Box Cutter) its not that far of a stretch to think that Walt knew he had allowed Todd to take notes on the whole process, and they wanted Walt to do one more cook for Todd to remind him EXACTLY how to get the higher purity, that after Ozymandis Jack and Todd and perhaps Lydia had gotten someone else to help get the purity up also (it's not like they didn't have 70 million dollars to pay someone to help them). The other thing is, its a REAL stretch for Walt to think that A) Jack would lett Jesse go seeing as he had seen him kill a DEA agent, and he was a know Narc that could tuen evidence against Jack because of this, and B) Jack would have teamed up with Jesse to cook because of the above, he had Todd to cook for him, even at 76% purity there is still LOTS of $$$ to be made, and C) the real truth, who would think that they would keep someone in a pit for up to 1/2 a year as their slave, I mean its a HUGE risk to do that. I really don't think Walt had any idea that Jesse might be alive until Badger and Pete mentioned him. 

      The other thing is that the cartel made a video of Jesse doing his cook in Mexico, they never showed that tape destroyed. Walt of course did not know this, but there are others that could make the magic Blue

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    • I am going to be honest- this death bothered me, because there was no real point. Rather, it felt like a cheap way to build suspense and pad the running time. It really bothers me that THIS was the result of the flashforward. For half a season, I was wondering who Walter was trying to kill, and why he would risk so much to get that ricin capsule. Even IF I buy the flimsy arguments for her death (which I don't), we aren't talking about Gus Fring here. It's not like he had to find an opening to kill her because she was protected 24 hours a day. Heck, he could have just LOOKED at the woman the wrong way and she probably would have fainted.

      Long story short- I don't buy the purpose of her death, and I CERTAINLY don't see any purpose in killing her with ricin. Killing uncle Jack? That makes more sense. Maybe he works with Jesse to put it in his coffee or something. Hell, even that psycopath Todd (though I did appreciate his death). But Lydia? All of that suspense from the flashforward and THAT'S the payoff?

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    • I makes WAY more sense to kill he with the Ricin than to kill Jack. Jack was going to kill walt once he turned up at their place no question. Walt was going to kill Jesse until the very last second (Vince Gilligan said so himself) so working with Jesse to kill jack was out of the question. Lydia was the perfect victim for the Ricin, a threat to his family but not a violent threat herself, so she dies in a non violent way. The real waste of time was the whole watch thing with the phone call, Gilligan said it was for continuity because when they filmed the teaser at the begining of season 5-1 Walt was not wearing the watch in Denny's, so they had to give him a reason for not wearing the watch, no one would have even noticed most likely to be honest.  

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    • Long story short, Walt killed Lydia to protect Skyler and the kids.

      She was presumably the only Madrigal employee still working on the meth operation.

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    • My theory: it goes back to why Walt killed the prisoners and lawyer in S5E8. They may have been in prison, but they knew too much, and they would have ratted at the first chance given to them. And since they didn't have any business to offer, why keep them around? But Lydia was kept alive because of her methylamine, as well as her ties to Europe. But even in that same episode, Lydia was worried about her own life because she was afraid of being in the same spot as the prisoners, "just another someone who knows too much."

      And by the series finale, that's exactly what she was. With Jesse free and Todd's gang killed, there was no one left to produce blue crystal with a 92-6% purity. With no production for the business on her end, she became exactly what she feared: just another person who knows too much.

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    • As someone above wrote: "Walt is too complex". Yes, he IS. I often thought I had him figured out and then he would pull some stunt or act in weird way, such as very selfish or macho. Remember his sudden confrontation with Hank at the poolside party after his good diagnosis, when he lets Junior drink? He is enraged by Hank's presumption that HE is the right one, not Walt, to decide how much JR. can drink. Granted, it's messed up, arguing over how drunk to let  a teenager get, but he resents Hank for trying to rob him of his role as father and take away his control (a HUGE thing for Walt!).

      So I think Walt's killing of Lydia is simple revenge, for what she's put him through. In the finale, notice how he refuses to let Uncle Jack bargain his way out of instant death by telling him where the money is? AND how he stands back and watches with satisfaction as Jesse kills Todd? He is settling accounts, regaining the last bits of control in his life before he dies.

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    • I lost my original post, so hopefully this one will show up. Walt kills Lydia to put an end to his blue meth production. It's not so much fear of who she knows or protecting his family, but to end blue meth production once and for all. Gretchen and Elliot have already removed his contributions to their company, Gray Matter. So what does Walt have left? What will his legacy be? We know the idea of legacy is important to Walt from the episode where he talks to Walt, Jr. about his own father. Even if it's never reported, the police will probably figure out that he killed Jack's gang and ended the production on that end. By getting rid of Lydia as well, blue meth will never show up again, especially in Europe as Walt knows that Jesse will not willingly make meth again. Killing Lydia and Jack with his gang ended blue meth production and that will be Walt's legacy...even overshadowing the $28 million that Gretchen and Elliot gave for meth addiction treatment. A man does what a man does even when no one knows and he is unloved.

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    • Walt had a host of reasons to get rid of Lydia - she was a threat to his family, which he was no longer able to protect (and she's already shown she has no qualms getting rid of people, regardless of the size of the threat); she was both the distributer of the blue meth and a potential supplier of methylamine; she was an extension of Jack's gang, who'd killed Hank and stolen Walt's money... there weren't any reasons not to kill off Lydia, really.

      By the end, Walt only had one goal - to ensure his family's protection and solvency, and the only way to do that was to take out everyone who was a possible threat. If he was that worried about his meth legacy, he'd have killed Jesse, the only other person who knew the recipe and could make it as well as him. After all, even if he was convinced that Jesse would never cook again, he would never have been able to guarantee that Jesse wouldn't pass on the recipe to anyone else. I like to think that Walt probably figured Jesse would never cook again, but if he decided to, and wanted to use their old recipe - well, he'd bloody well earned it, hadn't he?

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