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Who is the worse villain? Gustavo Fring or Walter White?

Hey guys you know I've watched BB alot and I'm starting to think that Walt is more evil than Gus is.

In Season 4 yes Gus is the main antagonist but a majority of the reasons why he stated to hate Walt is Walt's fault.

Walt was the one who told Jesse to expand their territory when they were street dealing and this is what caued Combo's death and who lead to the whole fiasco with Jesse wanting to kill the Rival Dealers and eventually to Gus hating Walt! Gus had a right to want to kill both Jesse and Walt as killing the dealers could've exposed his empire as did killing Gale.

And of course Walt is the one who told Hank to keep investigating Gale which finally did expose Gus' true nature and empire and Walt killing him did nothing but cause disaster and exposed a whole empire of criminals that coul've exposed Walt!

I honestly can't stand Walt! He is prideful, arrogent and truely evil! The only reason he became a drug dealer was to satisfy his ego and he put his enire family in danger and ruined countless lives! He poisons a child just to manipulate Jesse, he let Jane die to gain control of Jesse and he got Hank killed.

In my mind he is more evil than Gus.

Thoughts?

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alright ok, i apologize

apology accepted.
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Walt was the true villain of the series and in his own life.

Don't know if I could say one was "more evil" than the other-they both were ruthless murderers and there was virtually no line they wouldn't cross.

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Elchapetas wrote:
Walt was the one who told Jesse to expand their territory when they were street dealing and this is what caued Combo's death and who lead to the whole fiasco with Jesse wanting to kill the Rival Dealers and eventually to Gus hating Walt! Gus had a right to want to kill both Jesse and Walt as killing the dealers could've exposed his empire as did killing Gale.

And of course Walt is the one who told Hank to keep investigating Gale which finally did expose Gus' true nature and empire and Walt killing him did nothing but cause disaster and exposed a whole empire of criminals that coul've exposed Walt!

I honestly can't stand Walt! He is prideful, arrogent and truely evil! The only reason he became a drug dealer was to satisfy his ego and he put his enire family in danger and ruined countless lives! He poisons a child just to manipulate Jesse, he let Jane die to gain control of Jesse and he got Hank killed.

In my mind he is more evil than Gus.

Thoughts?

First of all, Combo's death is by no means, Walt's fault, that is some lousy logic there at work, yes he may have tried to push Jesse to expand, but that was basically Jesse's department, so it was Jesse who gave the direct order to Combo to encroach on foreign territory, not Walt, that dumbass should have known better to begin with.

Second, do you even have a working brain? Yes Walt was responsible of encouraging Hank to keep investigating, but you realize he did that under the influence of alcohol? You cannot call that an act of evil or even indirect evil, stupid? absolutely, but evil... nope.

Do you also realize Walt was at war with Gus ultimately because of Jesse's stupidity?? Walt poisoning a child was an act of DESPERATION, this was because Jesse turned on Walt after being manipulated by Gus, even though it was Walt's timely intervention tha saved Jesse's life, at the cost of starting a war with the most powerful druglord in the whole New Mexico. I mean OMG, does everyone here has amnesia or something!?

Also, letting Jane die was, while tragic, necessary, she and Jesse were unpredictable drugaddicts, had they escaped, they would have, most likely, ended up fucking up badly, quite possibly getting themselves killed. That could have been averted had Jesse been more strong willed and intelligent, instead of being an useless, dimwitted and weak junkie.

i could go on and on, but the OP clearly hasn't got the slightest idea of what he's talking about.

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well I'm not about to EVEN be polite, as the bigger man LastOfUs did, so I'll begin w/, DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN ELCHAPETAS? I mean, I don't even want to go there because you could be a fairly intelligent individual and after all...are we discussing some major thesis or, our construction of the question of this thread? Well, after the way you just ourtright ATTACKED some guy, who had great articualation of who's who, let's treat it like a thesis. Walt, not responsible for Combo's death? Are...you...serious? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Look, we all know (or should) that Jesse and Walt had an absolute absent sort of "father/son" relationship, that goes along with a "love/hate" relationship, which brought both of them down, at different intervals of the show. Jessie warned Walt, persistantly, that going into the VERY areas Walt was looking at with his regional sheet would cause for disaster. This is not the first time, remember Jesse getting knocked around by Tuco was who's fault? Walt's, and don't even try to argue it wasn't b/c Walt going back and exploding Tuco's spot w/fulminated Mercury. Many times Walt's retaliation was due to feeling bad for something that had happened to Jesse. Now, here's where there is a hole. Could Jesse have said "hell no, and that's that."? Yes, he could. Which after the Tuco incident, he began to. But because of Jesse's flaw of needing Walt's approval, wanting so badly for someone ANYONE to vouch for him...he easily swayed again (did things his way BUT...went after the methheads that jacked Skinny, and then...WAY against Jesse's wishes...put his people on the corners Walt spotted out.) Again, could Jesse have said no? Yes. But w/Jesse's flaw of needing Walt's approval, and Walt manipulating him "nobody will hurt you, b/c word is out, you are a killer...etc etc", WALT is the one that PUSHED for them to expand territory w/out understanding the importance of street credit. And all in all, it was Walt's game, he was boss. Though they agreed 50/50, Walt was boss, Jesse knew it. Jesse could have walked away...and by the time it was too late, he finally did. But make no mistake, Combo's death was on Walt's just as much as Jesse's, and I say more so. Now...Walt was just drunk, and that's why he "insisted" Heisenburg was still out there? No sir. Now as I do not see this as a calculated way of getting at Gus, b/c, it just added problems...it was what LastOfUs was speaking about in 1 sense, Walt's pride. After hearing Hank go on about "Heisenburg" being dead, "looks like the guy", "man I wanted to be the one" (not same episode but still, all this adding up in Walt's mind) Walt could not help himself, he HAD to somehow put it subtley that, Gale could not have been Heisenburg. Just as Mike said, Walt had this aura of just "having to be the man." I for one do not believe that all the decay was on Walt...Gus underestimated Walt, and underestimated the Jesse/Walt loyalty (if only Gus was still alive when Jesse found out Walt's manipulation, hmmm) when he went after Jesse. And these 2 drug dealers? Gus maybe could have foreseen problems for wanting to murder these 2 underdogs. Thus, Gus going after Walt/Jesse formulated Walt being hell bent on revenge, but, like Jesse always said, Walt was NEVER a guy to just let loose ends lay loose. Maybe, just maybe, if Walt would have stayed away from Fringe, and supposedly let's say...still never let his guard down, Gus would have had to continue to do business. But, Gus made it apparent (as w/his actions against Eladio) that eventually, he would have made his move. Walt retaliate way too soon? Yes. Was his retaliation eventually needed though? Yes, most likely. But to say Walt's decisions had no impact on what Jesse was told to do? That's completely misread on your part. The destruction of the whole thing amounted to this: Who was more evil? I think that's the wrong question...rather, what type of evil was which? Gus, was a calculated, inevitable evil. Walt was a chaotic, emotionally explosive evil. Put the two together with their mutual interest...money....BOOM. That's my take, and I won't say you "don't have a brain" or "amnesia" or some tough guy talk behind a computer b/c if you said that to a dude face to face, high chance of getting your jaw slammed in. So, let's keep it down huh?

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Elchapetas What's your problem man? You make some good points, but so does OP and I would argue his original post was not only a better post but he didn't come off like a juvenile twat. I would say OP has a better idea of what he is talking about than you do.

It's hard to say one is worse but if I had to pick one I would say Walt is a worse person than Gus.

Walt is obviously the protagonist so we see things from his point of view, it's not until you look back that you realize Walt pushed Gus's hand and forced a situation where one of them has to die, as Mike said "They had a good thing with Fring."

Gus is certainly more careful than Walt, who lets his pride and greed get in his way and ultimately lead to both of their downfalls. It's Walt's ego (as well as alcohol) that causes him to encourage Hank to continue his investigation. He can't stand the idea that Gale gets the credit for his work, his arrogance is one of his fatal flaws. It was not an act of evil just a stupid act the Gus who is much more humble never would have made.

Yes, Walt poisoned Brock out of necessity but that does not excuse the action; it certainly does not make it okay or not evil; poisoning a child for any reason is evil that shouldn't have to be explained.

Walt let Jane die for two reasons first he believes (and rightfully so that Jane is toxic for Jesse and will get him killed) but also and probably the bigger reason is that Jane is unpredictable and could expose Walt. It doesn't make what he did okay it, a good person would have saved Jane no question; but a good person also would become a meth cook.
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(Foreword: before i get started, be well aware that, by submitting your posts and replies on the internet, you are agreeing to have your opinions criticized and intensely ridiculed, so quit being such bleeding vaginas already.)

Hahaha! You 2 getting so butthurt, since its evident you love to think with the heart and the ass, i dont think you will even understand my response, less so any boisterous buffoon that cant even drop the caps lock (also, learn to use paragraphs and correct punctuation, jesus). You ppl can't even begin to grasp how nuanced this series is (and definitely with lots of amnesia going on), thats why there's so many posts on hating heisenberg.

"well I'm not about to EVEN be polite"

Woe is me.

Nucklez82 ohhh! Jesse cant simply say no, therefore Walt's fault. Well boo-hoo! cry me a river you faggot., that's like being blamed for a murder for throwing a tantrum. The kid was an adult, he did the act, end of story; words are not violence, he didnt threaten him, no true coercion took place, your special (emotional) pleading right out of the window in any court case, your rhetoric is garbage. Furthermore, they all decided to get into the drug business and they all knew the occupational hazards, I mean, nobody forced Combo to sell drugs, ffs, talking about treating ppl like children and having teen angst against the "father figure". (Its the same with the OP, you ppl parading your proud ignorance and stupidity).

The second part of your reply is completely irrelevant, just gibberish.

Cojemi ill post in whatever form i feel like thank you very much (stop crying already). To respond to your idiocy, for example, Jane was better off dead, she betrayed her dad once she saw the money, she would have done the same to Jesse once she ran, she was a serpent, all of which could have been averted if Jesse hadn't been a total pushover (one of many examples of Heisneberg's desperate patching of the never ending sinking ship of Jesse).

"Yes, Walt poisoned Brock out of necessity but that does not excuse the action; it certainly does not make it okay or not evil; poisoning a child for any reason is evil that shouldn't have to be explained."

Nice work missing the point, you either didn't even read my whole reply, have amnesia, or you're just a complete mentally challenged chimp (another great example of just about everyone's utter and irremediable incapability of taking the whole moral spectrum into account), Walt had to do that ultimately because of Jesse's fault and idiocy. Heisenberg didn't even have to, he had the amazing heart to save his retarded sinking ship against all reason (who later turned on him because of going full retard and Gus manipulating him), if anything, that's Gus fault, by harassing and knowingly turning Heisenberg desperate. Read the "moral trolley problem" to educate your small mind, would you call someone evil for poisoning 10 children to save 1? how about saving 10 or 100 or 1.000 or 10,000? at what point does the trade off turns "poisoning 10 children" into "not evil" or "acceptable"?

I could go on and on, but I think Ive made abundantly clear that, by using their hearts and their asses instead of their brains, these 2 imbeciles have completely lost the perspective of what this series is all about:

NUANCE
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Elchapetas Hahaha, you get so emotional about it are you 12?
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I enjoy the simple things in life, such as putting edgy kids down while they stutter together their autistic responses or some angsty comeback.
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Gus is way worse.

Walter still had a conscious which is very evident in season 5.

Gus was basically a psychopath..As bad as Walt was, he would never kill a child. Gus has both killed a child and threatened to kill two others.
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